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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 51

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of the point of convergence podcast as

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always i am your host exo academian

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in last week's episode i postulated that

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part of the reason why it's so difficult

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to make sense of the actions of the

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intelligence behind the ufo phenomenon

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is because in reality that broad range

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of activity is not the result of a

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single actor

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the data ends up looking nonsensical and

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contradictory to us because in one case

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a so-called alien intelligence says or

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does one thing and then in the next case

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it does the seeming opposite

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but as i argued that apparent

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contradiction only exists when we assume

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a single intelligence and agenda is

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involved

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from my point of view the reality is

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anything but

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i think what we're dealing with is a

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multi-dimensional multiverse absolutely

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teeming with life

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and while trickster phenomena are

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undoubtedly in the mix

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that alone from my point of view doesn't

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explain the bizarre mishmash of actions

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we see evidenced in the data

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again i think the wide range of activity

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and messages attributed to these others

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makes most sense when we think about

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them as being different groups

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often with different agendas as well as

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different sources slash origins

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i also made the point in last week's

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episode that while various researchers

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tend to focus on one subset of the data

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while ignoring dismissing or downplaying

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the rest this is the wrong approach

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especially if our goal is to gain a

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greater understanding as to the totality

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of what's going on and more importantly

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to gain further clarity on the very

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fabric of ultimate reality

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i think our approach should be to

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attempt to identify patterns within the

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totality of the data

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and as we do that i think we'll find

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that one particular hypothesis might

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better fit one aspect of the data while

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perhaps a different hypothesis better

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fits a different segment

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in other words in no way should we

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consider these various hypotheses to be

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mutually exclusive

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in fact i think it's only in combining

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them within some overarching

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meta-conception that we can hope to

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achieve some semblance of clarity as to

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the source and nature of these various

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mysterious others

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in addition to the confusion that can

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arise when we have data that effectively

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is a jumble of activity based on many

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different kinds of non-human

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intelligence

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one aspect of that data that seems

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particularly confounding is the

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regularly reported humanoid form of

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these so-called aliens

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now on the one hand one might want to

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disregard these reports as being an

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anthropocentric tendency based on people

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who didn't see very clearly during a

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certain contact or abduction experience

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or who are suffering from a failing

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memory

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and that might work for one or a few

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cases

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but as i already stated these humanoid

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forms are described again and again and

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again in the ufo phenomenon literature

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so much so that we surely can't explain

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this all away as blatant inherent bias

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in this broad assortment of witnesses

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not very long ago on this podcast we

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discussed the future human hypothesis

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and how this helps to elegantly explain

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why these others so often appear to not

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only be humanoids but actually hominids

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in other words biological beings

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directly descended from human beings

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but are there other possibilities that

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deserve consideration as a plausible

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explanation for their uncanny

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resemblance to us

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i believe there are and we'll explore

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both those possibilities as well as how

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various proposed hypotheses might weave

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together to form a fabric robust enough

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to contain the plurality of alien others

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that have been reported over time

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in this the 51st episode of the point of

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convergence podcast

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[Music]

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as we begin this week's episode i would

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just like to bring to your attention

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that this is part two of a two-part

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series that we began last week in

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episode 50. so if you haven't heard that

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yet you might want to go back and listen

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to that first and then return to this

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episode number 51.

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now in that episode last week i

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mentioned that this week we would pick

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up where we left off and talk about the

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different hypotheses the broad brush

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hypotheses that attempt to make sense of

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the data we see in the ufo phenomenon

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now of course number one that everyone

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is aware of is the extraterrestrial

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hypothesis this is the notion that these

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are non-human intelligences they are

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biological beings who are coming from

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planets tied to star systems tied to

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galaxies they may be coming from our own

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galaxy or from far away from a galaxy

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even further away than the milky way but

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bottom line is that they are biological

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beings who traveled here either through

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advanced spacecraft or by a combination

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of advanced spacecraft and something

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like wormholes that would allow them to

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warp space-time and get here much more

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quickly and much more efficiently

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that's number one the extraterrestrial

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hypothesis

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next up we have the interdimensional

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hypothesis now as i've mentioned many

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times on this podcast

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jacques valley and j allen heineck ended

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up championing this kind of hypothesis

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even though they began as proponents of

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the extraterrestrial hypothesis

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the reason why they began to question

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the extraterrestrial hypothesis

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is because there is so much high

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strangeness in the data and remember

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these are first-hand researchers going

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in and interviewing witnesses

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family friends co-workers of these

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witnesses gathering as much on the

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ground data as is available and then

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trying to make sense of that data and

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again because there is so much high

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strangeness so many apparent paranormal

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activities that seem to co-arise with

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the arising of these supposed

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extraterrestrials

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both people like valet and heinek who at

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one point worked together concluded that

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this is perhaps not extraterrestrial in

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nature

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now in jacques villa's case he also

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later on went and investigated

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researched in-depth fairy lore we're

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specifically talking mostly about

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european fairy lore from ancient history

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and how that relates to similarities

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with reports from supposed modern ufo

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sightings and interactions with supposed

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aliens

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what valet saw was that there is a lot

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of overlap even in terms of the

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appearance as well as the actions of

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these others and so valet began to

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wonder perhaps these aren't different

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groups at all but rather the same group

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over time just seen differently because

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of our expectations our conceptions

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obviously for modern human beings the

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final frontier is outer space at this

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point in our development and so when we

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run into beings that seem so other to us

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our initial assumption is they must be

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aliens space aliens in other words

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biological beings arising from other

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planets and traveling here in

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sophisticated spacecraft of course that

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wasn't the assumption in

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the middle ages for instance in europe

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so their lens might have been different

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which led them to interpret the

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experience differently and come to

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different conclusions about the origin

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of these others that they were namely

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magical creatures that could appear out

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of nowhere basically

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and it's important to note here that it

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may be that this is just about human

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beings and our lens our bias and how we

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apply that to things we come across

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differently over time

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but it may also be the case that some

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sort of combination or mutuality or

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relationship exists where

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our perceptions our expectations also

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play a role in what we actually end up

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experiencing especially if these beings

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somehow are not embodied in quite the

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same way we think of beings as likely to

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be

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if they are not densely embodied like us

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or if they have a different modality

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they can take on then perhaps they are a

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combination of something real and

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biological or semi-biological but

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they're also to some degree a reflection

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of our own

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expectations again there's a lot of

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complexity here but this is basically

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the notion that people like valet came

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to

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with this interdimensional hypothesis

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we're talking about beings perhaps

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biological perhaps some combination of

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biological and energetic

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coming from a different reality perhaps

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a parallel earth or parallel universe

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that can pop in and out of our reality

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and this explains their ability to show

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up suddenly and then disappear suddenly

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and also explains why we only come

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across them in certain situations and

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when certain conditions are met

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so that's the first two the

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extraterrestrial hypothesis and the

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interdimensional hypothesis

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now it should be said that in popular

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culture the extraterrestrial hypothesis

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is still the most common one you come

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across when people think about ufos

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even when you pay attention to modern

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media discussing what's going on in

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congress in terms of establishing

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official bodies designed to

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study this phenomenon if they talk about

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something off-world they mean

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extraterrestrial that's really the only

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possibility that's being considered

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beyond conventional prosaic human

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explanations at this point

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but for those who have a deep

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familiarity with this data the

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interdimensional hypothesis is probably

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the more common one adhered to but it's

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also important here to point out that it

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could be some combination of the two in

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other words we could have beings that

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did arise on some planet in some

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far-flung star system but in an

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alternate reality to ours so in that

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sense you have a combination of the two

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and i always like to say to people don't

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become too wooden too concretized in how

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you think about these different

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hypotheses because our view of reality

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itself may be somewhat wanting in fact

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i'm pretty sure it is and therefore we

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should hold all of this lightly

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so that takes care of the first two

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hypotheses that are most commonly put

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forward to make sense of this phenomenon

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of course there are others

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now we last week also talked about the

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extra dimensional hypothesis

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and here i'm talking about a notion of

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beings who are coming from outside of

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space time construct altogether

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so let's make sense of this

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00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:01,600
initially you have kind of a view where

284
00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:03,680
there is one universe and that is the

285
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:06,240
sum total of everything and if beings

286
00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:07,760
are coming here who are not

287
00:11:12,069 --> 00:11:10,079
conventionally human and not even native

288
00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:12,079
to the earth then they must be coming

289
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:15,440
from some other location in the cosmos

290
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:18,079
in the one cosmos that is the totality

291
00:11:22,550 --> 00:11:20,320
of everything and again most likely we

292
00:11:25,509 --> 00:11:22,560
think of them as coming from some planet

293
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:25,519
in some star system in some galaxy now

294
00:11:29,509 --> 00:11:27,200
interdimensional takes it one step

295
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:29,519
further and says perhaps according to

296
00:11:33,829 --> 00:11:31,440
the many worlds hypothesis there are

297
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:33,839
multiple universes multiple worlds

298
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:35,279
that's where the many worlds notion

299
00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:37,680
comes from and that these others may be

300
00:11:41,910 --> 00:11:39,680
coming here from one of those other

301
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:41,920
realities those parallel realities it

302
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:44,160
could even be a parallel earth so in

303
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:46,720
that sense a long distance is not really

304
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:49,440
the issue it's about transversing that

305
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:51,839
membrane between realities

306
00:11:54,710 --> 00:11:53,440
that perhaps that's what these beings

307
00:11:56,069 --> 00:11:54,720
are doing

308
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:56,079
but with the extra dimensional

309
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,920
hypothesis we're not talking about

310
00:12:01,509 --> 00:12:00,000
either of those possibilities

311
00:12:04,069 --> 00:12:01,519
we're suggesting that there may be

312
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:04,079
beings who exist outside of that

313
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:06,800
space-time construct altogether who are

314
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:09,200
not members of the multiverse as we

315
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:10,639
think about it

316
00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:12,880
rather they are according to some

317
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:15,360
people's conceptions very close to the

318
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:18,639
central source of the entire multiverse

319
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:21,120
the creator if you will the ultimate

320
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:23,680
intelligence behind everything

321
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:25,519
there are various reasons why people

322
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:27,839
think about these beings in this way

323
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,760
partly it's because they remind them of

324
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:31,839
angels in the sense that they are not

325
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:34,720
only seemingly composed of light and not

326
00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:36,560
matter but because they are often

327
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:39,040
described as very good beings benevolent

328
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:41,120
beings who mean us well when you think

329
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:43,279
about guardian angels people are talking

330
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:45,680
about these types of beings these

331
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:48,240
celestial types as i mentioned in last

332
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:51,680
week's episode angels demons and dorothy

333
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:54,079
isaac's beings of light all fall within

334
00:12:59,829 --> 00:12:56,560
their celestial categories beings that

335
00:13:03,190 --> 00:12:59,839
do not seem to be embodied at all don't

336
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:03,200
seem to be biological at all and don't

337
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:05,760
seem to arise from within the space-time

338
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,720
construct at all so that's the extra

339
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,720
dimensional hypothesis

340
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:12,240
and as i describe these various

341
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:14,079
hypotheses i want you to keep in mind

342
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:16,399
that what i'm suggesting is that

343
00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:18,480
different hypotheses can describe

344
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:20,560
different aspects of the data so you

345
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:22,800
might take a subset of the data notice a

346
00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:24,880
certain pattern occurring and it might

347
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:27,200
fit one type of entity perhaps

348
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:28,800
interdimensional perhaps

349
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:30,959
extraterrestrial or based on what we

350
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:32,880
just talked about perhaps extra

351
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:35,279
dimensional and only by combining all of

352
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:37,279
these do we then end up with something

353
00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:39,440
that looks like a more complete picture

354
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:41,360
of what people are encountering over

355
00:13:44,949 --> 00:13:42,880
time

356
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:44,959
now while those hypotheses we just

357
00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:47,199
mentioned are the most common

358
00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:49,120
another one that's arisen more recently

359
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:51,440
that has gained a lot of credibility is

360
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:54,480
the so-called future human hypothesis

361
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:55,920
now we discussed this over three

362
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:58,000
different episodes quite recently so if

363
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,079
you are familiar with those episodes you

364
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:02,480
know exactly what i'm talking about for

365
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:04,560
those of you who are not so familiar the

366
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:06,959
idea is that because some of these

367
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:09,440
graves look so much like us this

368
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:11,839
suggests that they are in fact our very

369
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:14,240
biological descendants that if time

370
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:16,480
traveled back from the future to our

371
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:19,839
time period this notion this hypothesis

372
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:22,480
is developed quite elegantly in michael

373
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:25,120
master's excellent book identified

374
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:27,839
flying objects and he calls these beings

375
00:14:34,150 --> 00:14:31,199
extra tempestrials because actually they

376
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:34,160
are not not from here they are from here

377
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:36,240
but they're from outside of our time

378
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:38,560
therefore they're extra tempestrial

379
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:45,110
so if you have a history with this

380
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:47,040
phenomenon with this literature behind

381
00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:50,160
ufos and alien beings you've probably

382
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:52,480
heard of each of the previous hypotheses

383
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:54,320
i just outlined

384
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:56,000
now let's touch on a couple that you may

385
00:15:01,269 --> 00:14:58,079
not have heard of the first is the

386
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,279
so-called psychosocial hypothesis

387
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:03,680
the idea here is that psychosocial

388
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:07,279
dynamics archetypes and collective psy

389
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,320
phenomena and even mass hysteria can

390
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:12,800
play a role in the arising of these

391
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:14,079
entities

392
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:16,160
now while you may at first balk at this

393
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:18,399
notion because it seems to mock the idea

394
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:20,320
that these could actually be real but

395
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:22,800
rather their hallucinations arising from

396
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:25,199
mass hysteria like we said or some sort

397
00:15:29,269 --> 00:15:27,199
of collective delusion

398
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:29,279
it's not quite that simple because when

399
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,360
you look into the sci spectrum for

400
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:33,120
instance with human beings and the

401
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:36,240
history of entities such as egregors or

402
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:38,959
tulpas you find that there actually

403
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,680
apparently are historical cases where

404
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:43,440
human beings have gotten together and

405
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:45,920
collectively been able to actually

406
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:48,160
assign certain characteristics to some

407
00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:51,040
imaginary being who then takes on some

408
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:53,839
sort of independent existence in other

409
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:56,079
words it's not just in the collective

410
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:58,160
shared imagination of a certain group of

411
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:01,199
people but that in some way this entity

412
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:03,680
takes on an ontological status that goes

413
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:05,759
beyond just the imagination of those

414
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:08,639
people furthermore there have been cases

415
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:10,560
in the historical literature where some

416
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:13,199
of these entities that have taken life

417
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:15,519
based on the intentionality expressed by

418
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:18,079
a group of people and then been able to

419
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:20,240
interact with those very people after

420
00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:23,199
the fact and even manifest in physical

421
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:25,519
reality for instance shaking a table or

422
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,600
moving a chair in a room

423
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:29,440
now i understand if you're coming from

424
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:31,519
more of a nuts and bolts perspective not

425
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:34,399
only to the ufo phenomenon but to life

426
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:36,959
in general to the fabric of reality

427
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:39,279
that's going to sound outlandish to you

428
00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:40,959
all i would say to you is that there is

429
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:43,040
quite a bit of evidence for this and

430
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:44,320
especially when you go outside of

431
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:46,480
western civilization and some of the

432
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:49,680
assumptions of reductive materialism

433
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:51,839
this is actually quite common this is an

434
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:54,480
expectation in some other cultures and

435
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:56,480
again to make it clear there have been

436
00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:59,360
cases even within western civilization

437
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:01,279
where such attempts like this have been

438
00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:02,560
successful

439
00:17:05,669 --> 00:17:04,000
so i just want to make that clear that

440
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:05,679
we're talking about two different kinds

441
00:17:09,909 --> 00:17:08,079
of psychosocial phenomena here on the

442
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:09,919
one hand you have something like mass

443
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:12,480
hysteria or collective delusion which

444
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:14,799
suggests that nothing is really going on

445
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:16,400
behind the scenes

446
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:18,400
but you also have cases where

447
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:20,880
psychosocial effects can arise that

448
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,000
actually seem to imbue certain entities

449
00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:26,640
with an ontological status they become

450
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:28,240
real

451
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:30,320
again i understand that for some of you

452
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:32,080
some of these notions will sound quite

453
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,480
outlandish but again there is quite a

454
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:36,960
bit of evidence for them we will go into

455
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,520
this in greater detail in future podcast

456
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:41,280
episodes when we have more time to

457
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:43,840
devote specifically to this topic

458
00:17:47,510 --> 00:17:45,840
but just generally let me say that there

459
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:47,520
are sort of three different kinds of

460
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:49,679
thought form kind of entities

461
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:52,880
tulpas egregors and servitors

462
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:55,360
now a tulpa is created by a person and

463
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:58,400
is a thought form that has autonomy and

464
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:00,720
some degree of free will then you have

465
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,799
an ergor which is pretty much like a

466
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:04,880
tulpa except that it's the product of

467
00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:06,640
several people with combined

468
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:08,559
consciousness intention

469
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:10,799
and finally you have a servitor which is

470
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:13,679
specifically an entity created to serve

471
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,679
a human being you might think of it like

472
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:17,760
an astral robot

473
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:19,600
again everything i just described would

474
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,080
fall within the psychosocial hypothesis

475
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:26,640
now there is one other hypothesis put

476
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:28,880
forward to explain the ufo phenomenon

477
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:31,039
that i'd also like to make you aware of

478
00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:32,400
perhaps you've heard of this before

479
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:34,880
perhaps you haven't but like some of the

480
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:37,200
others it does explain why

481
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:40,160
these beings often look so humanoid

482
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:42,720
basically the idea is that these beings

483
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:44,400
are basically human

484
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:46,320
and that this is part of a breakaway

485
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:48,640
civilization and this is therefore the

486
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:51,360
breakaway civilization hypothesis

487
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:53,760
most commonly associated with ufo

488
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:56,720
researcher and historian richard dolan

489
00:19:00,710 --> 00:18:58,240
now there are some pretty fascinating

490
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:00,720
historical details that might tie into

491
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:02,880
this but the long and short of it is

492
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:04,960
that when you think back to the mystery

493
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:07,679
airships of the late 1800s and early

494
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:09,120
1900s

495
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:11,039
this is supposedly the result of

496
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:12,799
technological experiments being

497
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:15,280
conducted by a certain group that was

498
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:16,720
further ahead than other human

499
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:19,600
civilization in terms of technology

500
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:21,120
and this makes some sense when you think

501
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:23,039
about the mystery airships because while

502
00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:25,200
they were futuristic compared to what

503
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:27,280
human beings were doing at the time they

504
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:29,600
weren't very far ahead perhaps a decade

505
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:30,640
or two

506
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:32,720
so that would align with the notion that

507
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:34,400
there was a certain group of human

508
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,600
beings who had leapfrogged others

509
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:39,600
furthermore experiments done by the

510
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:42,559
nazis in the 1930s and 40s are also

511
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:44,559
thought to be connected to this supposed

512
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:46,960
breakaway civilization and that the

513
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:50,000
diglocae the bell program perhaps was

514
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:52,320
able to not only accommodate space

515
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:54,320
travel but may also have been a kind of

516
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:56,720
time travel vehicle now that may be a

517
00:20:01,830 --> 00:19:59,120
lot to take in but there is interesting

518
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:01,840
historical details that perhaps may tie

519
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:04,159
into this and i would recommend nick

520
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:06,640
cook's excellent book the hunt for zero

521
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:08,480
point if you're interested in this

522
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:11,120
particular hypothesis and by the way we

523
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:13,280
will go into this in greater detail in a

524
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:15,280
future episode that we can dedicate

525
00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:17,120
specifically to this breakaway

526
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:20,000
civilization hypothesis

527
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,840
okay now that we've covered some of the

528
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:23,760
conventional as well as some of the

529
00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:26,960
unconventional hypotheses put forward to

530
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:29,360
explain the ufo phenomenon let's now

531
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:30,559
move to the second part of the

532
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:32,000
discussion which i mentioned in the

533
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:34,320
introduction that has to do with the

534
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:37,039
humanoid form of these others that has

535
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:40,159
come across so often in their literature

536
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:42,320
again to be very specific

537
00:20:48,310 --> 00:20:45,039
very very often these creatures have two

538
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:48,320
arms two legs two eyes a nose some

539
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,640
semblance of ears they look basically

540
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:52,480
humanoid even though there are some

541
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:54,240
details that are different perhaps the

542
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:56,720
color of the skin is more gray the eyes

543
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:59,200
of course are often larger the nose

544
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:01,440
mouth and ears are somewhat more receded

545
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:03,360
into the face or the head and the

546
00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:06,240
cranium is often larger but overall you

547
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:08,960
have a very humanoid form

548
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:10,720
so of course we're confronted with the

549
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,760
question

550
00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:13,919
why did these others these supposed

551
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:16,320
aliens look so humanoid and sometimes

552
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:18,960
even more than that quite human

553
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,799
on the one hand this flies in the face

554
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:23,200
of common sense which tends to suggest

555
00:21:27,190 --> 00:21:25,280
that beings arising on some completely

556
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:27,200
different planet under a completely

557
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:29,039
different set of environmental

558
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,200
conditions and different accidents of

559
00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:33,840
evolutionary history would not tend to

560
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:36,400
evolve to look so much like us according

561
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:38,640
to common sense that might seem almost

562
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:39,919
impossible

563
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:41,760
and this leads people to believe either

564
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:44,080
that these aliens are actually somehow

565
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:46,240
connected to us or that they don't exist

566
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:47,760
at all and people are basically just

567
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:49,200
imagining them

568
00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:51,520
furthermore when you consider master's

569
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:53,360
case that he makes in his book

570
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:55,840
identified flying objects the case seems

571
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:58,880
even more sound that these may indeed be

572
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:01,440
human beings or some semblance of human

573
00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:03,760
beings a future evolutionary form of

574
00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:06,159
human beings who are time traveling into

575
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:07,600
our time period

576
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:10,080
and that's because to him based on his

577
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:12,720
background as an evolutionary biologist

578
00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:15,200
with a specialty in hominid form he

579
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:17,440
believes it is clear they must share a

580
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:20,480
genetic lineage both with us and other

581
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:23,200
primates such as chimpanzees

582
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:25,200
again it's a solid case it's a very

583
00:22:29,830 --> 00:22:27,120
strong case i think we have to take it

584
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:29,840
very seriously but that said it's also

585
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:32,400
worth asking are there other hypotheses

586
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:34,400
put forward other explanations that

587
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:36,720
could potentially explain why these

588
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:39,440
others look so commonly humanoid and

589
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:41,200
even somewhat human

590
00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:43,200
why would this be the case is there any

591
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:45,280
possibility that could explain this

592
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:48,080
beyond them being time traveling future

593
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:50,720
humans basically well as it turns out i

594
00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:52,799
think there are some other possibilities

595
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:54,880
that definitely deserve consideration

596
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:56,480
and i'd like to touch on several of

597
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:58,159
those now

598
00:23:02,710 --> 00:23:00,320
now one possibility arises as an

599
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:02,720
implication of a hypothesis we already

600
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,320
discussed and that is the

601
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:06,400
interdimensional hypothesis

602
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:07,679
it could be that these are

603
00:23:12,149 --> 00:23:09,200
dimension-hopping

604
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:12,159
denisons of an alternate earth or beings

605
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:14,880
that kind of cohabitate between here and

606
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,039
some alternate earth that would explain

607
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:19,280
why they look humanoid and often quite

608
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:20,240
human

609
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:21,440
and that's because they may have

610
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:23,760
followed a similar evolutionary

611
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,840
trajectory to a certain point and then

612
00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:27,840
perhaps it diverged in some ways because

613
00:23:32,710 --> 00:23:30,080
of different environmental conditions

614
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:32,720
that arose on that alternate earth that

615
00:23:36,789 --> 00:23:34,559
would explain why they look so much like

616
00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:36,799
us but not exactly like us

617
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:38,799
another possibility that would explain

618
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:41,120
why there seem to be different beings

619
00:23:46,310 --> 00:23:44,080
both aliens and us the human denizens of

620
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:46,320
this planet that share such a common

621
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:48,080
humanoid form

622
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:49,840
that could of course arise from some

623
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:52,799
sort of vast ancient seeding program

624
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:55,440
perhaps undertaken by some ancient but

625
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:58,559
sophisticated alien intelligence now of

626
00:24:02,230 --> 00:24:00,320
course conventional science doesn't

627
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:02,240
consider that possibility because it

628
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:04,320
sounds quite outlandish and it requires

629
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:06,480
the assistance of some ancient

630
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:08,960
sophisticated civilization that's a fair

631
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:11,520
point this option may fail the occam

632
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:14,559
razors test but it's still a possibility

633
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:16,960
many astrophysicists do believe that

634
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:19,039
it's quite likely that some life in the

635
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:21,039
universe is going to be much older than

636
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:23,200
ours perhaps billions of years older

637
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,440
than ours and if those particular

638
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:27,760
civilizations evolved to take to space

639
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:30,159
travel they may have conducted some sort

640
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:32,240
of cosmic seating program throughout the

641
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:34,720
galaxy or perhaps even further and

642
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,240
that's why you get these different

643
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:38,480
groups of rising that look so similar

644
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:40,880
because they arise from the same origin

645
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:43,520
or source that basically spread seed

646
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:45,440
across the galaxy

647
00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:47,039
and in fact when you hear about some

648
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:49,279
researchers suggesting that the earth is

649
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:51,440
kind of like a petri dish and some

650
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:54,400
ancient sophisticated alien civilization

651
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,200
is looking in on us like an experiment

652
00:25:01,830 --> 00:24:59,440
that would also fit with this idea of a

653
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:01,840
cosmic seating program

654
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:03,520
another possibility that could explain

655
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:06,080
this is mac tony's crypto-terrestrial

656
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:07,600
hypothesis

657
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:09,520
this is the notion that perhaps there is

658
00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:12,159
a sister humanoid species that evolved

659
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:14,080
here on the earth and is within our

660
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:15,200
timeline

661
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:17,360
but at some point they separated from us

662
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:19,679
and perhaps either live underground or

663
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:22,240
in the oceans and may possess the

664
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:24,559
capacity to be able to disguise

665
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:26,880
themselves or cloud our consciousness so

666
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:28,720
that we're only aware of them on certain

667
00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:31,279
occasions and under certain conditions

668
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:33,039
that's a possibility as well here we're

669
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:35,919
talking about a sister humanoid species

670
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:38,159
from this earth not a different one and

671
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:40,640
from our very own timeline

672
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:42,240
another possibility that i would like to

673
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:44,960
discuss that i think is very promising

674
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:48,640
is a notion called convergent evolution

675
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:50,799
and to discuss this possibility i want

676
00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:52,640
to draw some quotes from

677
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:55,679
a book by eric kirshenbaum titled the

678
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:58,480
zoologist guide to the galaxy

679
00:26:02,549 --> 00:25:59,760
opening his book this is what

680
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:02,559
kirschenbaum has to say quote we are

681
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:04,159
increasingly confident that there is

682
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:06,159
life elsewhere in the universe and even

683
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:08,000
more excitingly that it might be

684
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:11,600
possible to find it in 2015 nasa's chief

685
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:14,640
scientist ellen stofan predicted that we

686
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:16,320
will have evidence of life on other

687
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:18,960
planets within 20 to 30 years

688
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:21,039
of course she was talking about microbes

689
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:22,960
or their alien equivalent not

690
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:25,039
necessarily intelligent life

691
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:27,600
but the principle is still staggering we

692
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:29,120
have gone from being obsessed with the

693
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:30,799
possibility of alien life at the

694
00:26:36,149 --> 00:26:32,960
beginning of the 20th century to

695
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:36,159
complacent pessimism in the 70s and 80s

696
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:38,400
and now back to a realistic scientific

697
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:39,600
optimism

698
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:41,600
this book is about how we can use that

699
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:43,840
realistic scientific approach to draw

700
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:46,960
conclusions with some confidence about

701
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:50,159
alien life and intelligent alien life in

702
00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:53,440
particular unquote now kirshenbaum goes

703
00:26:58,549 --> 00:26:56,080
on to explain how mechanisms are key to

704
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:58,559
zoologists and quoting from his book

705
00:27:01,830 --> 00:26:59,919
again quote

706
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:01,840
contrary to what some people think

707
00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:04,159
zoologists such as myself don't just

708
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:05,760
spend our time identifying and

709
00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:07,760
classifying animals

710
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:10,159
like scientists in all disciplines we

711
00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:11,840
attempt to explain what we see in the

712
00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:13,360
world around us

713
00:27:18,630 --> 00:27:16,000
zoology and evolutionary biology in

714
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:18,640
general is about proposing mechanisms

715
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:21,120
for explaining the nature of life

716
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:23,600
why do lions live in prides but tigers

717
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:26,240
hunt alone why do birds have only two

718
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:28,799
wings why for that matter do the vast

719
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:31,200
majority of animals have a left side and

720
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:32,559
a right side

721
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:34,799
observation is not enough we want to

722
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:37,200
derive a set of rules for life in the

723
00:27:41,430 --> 00:27:39,360
same way that physicists derive rules

724
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:41,440
for planets and stars

725
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:43,919
if those biological rules are universal

726
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:46,240
rules they will work as well on another

727
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:48,720
planet as the law of gravity

728
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:50,159
unquote

729
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:52,080
this is such a significant point that

730
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:54,080
kirschenbaum is making and when you

731
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:56,240
think about it it's common sensical

732
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:58,080
actually it's intuitive

733
00:28:02,389 --> 00:27:59,760
there was a time when we used to think

734
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:02,399
that planets in far-off star systems in

735
00:28:06,789 --> 00:28:04,399
different galaxies would be very very

736
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:06,799
different in fact it was kind of the

737
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:09,520
in-vogue thing to imagine really really

738
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:12,320
strange planets really really strange

739
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:13,919
alien life

740
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:16,320
but the truth is the same elements

741
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:18,640
compose the universe everywhere and

742
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:20,960
there's a certain consistency across the

743
00:28:25,029 --> 00:28:22,960
vast expanse of space

744
00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:25,039
that's why we can make observations or

745
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:28,200
predictions about exosolar planets and

746
00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:30,960
exogalactic planets because we assume

747
00:28:36,630 --> 00:28:34,640
there is a consistency across the cosmos

748
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:36,640
and in the same way christian bomb is

749
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:38,320
arguing it makes sense that there would

750
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:41,120
be consistent mechanisms which evolution

751
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:43,600
would use to solve certain problems

752
00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:46,159
because again evolution and natural

753
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:48,640
selection in particular are not thought

754
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:51,120
to be just unique to the earth just like

755
00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:53,200
hydrogen and helium are found throughout

756
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:56,559
the cosmos the idea is that evolutionary

757
00:29:03,190 --> 00:28:59,520
processes also exist across the cosmos

758
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:03,200
and they are what give rise to life

759
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:05,039
and because of that by even looking at

760
00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:07,200
the life we find here on the earth we

761
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:09,120
can make strong predictions about what

762
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:11,760
we're likely to find on exo solar and

763
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:14,159
exogalactic planets

764
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,159
i'd like to quote now from kirshenbaum's

765
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:18,240
book when he goes into this in greater

766
00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:19,360
detail

767
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:21,600
this is about solutions to universal

768
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:22,799
problems

769
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:25,360
quote we want to investigate questions

770
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:28,240
that astrobiologists rarely consider

771
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:31,279
what might complex alien life look like

772
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:33,520
can we draw any concrete conclusions

773
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:35,840
about the ecology and behavior of alien

774
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:38,960
life using the tools and clues we have

775
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:40,960
available on earth

776
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:43,360
a zoologist observing a newly discovered

777
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:45,679
continent from afar would be buzzing

778
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:47,840
with ideas about what kind of creatures

779
00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:49,279
might live there

780
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:50,960
those ideas wouldn't be wild

781
00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:53,600
speculations but keenly reasoned

782
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:55,039
hypotheses

783
00:30:00,149 --> 00:29:57,360
based on the huge diversity of animals

784
00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:00,159
we already know and how each animal's

785
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:02,720
adaptations are well suited for the life

786
00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:06,080
they live how they eat sleep find mates

787
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:08,320
and build their dens

788
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:10,159
the more we know about how animals have

789
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:12,640
adapted to the old world the better we

790
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:14,960
can speculate about the new

791
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:16,720
this is the approach i'm going to use

792
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:19,120
when talking about alien life as

793
00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:21,279
different as it may be there are still

794
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:23,039
some things that we can learn from how

795
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:25,440
life makes its living on earth

796
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:27,520
the evolutionary processes that we

797
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:30,080
observe here are due to pressures and

798
00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:32,720
mechanisms that are also very likely to

799
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:34,640
occur elsewhere

800
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:38,000
movement communication cooperation these

801
00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:39,919
are evolutionary outcomes that are

802
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:44,320
solutions to universal problems unquote

803
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:47,279
now again according to kirschenbaum a

804
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:50,000
notion such as convergent evolution

805
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:53,200
might explain why we can expect aliens

806
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:55,760
to perhaps look quite like us and have

807
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,480
developed mechanisms to solve similar

808
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:00,880
problems that all species all life is

809
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:04,159
likely to encounter as they evolve in

810
00:31:08,549 --> 00:31:06,399
environments such as planets

811
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:08,559
now earlier we mentioned that masters

812
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:10,720
suggested that the fact that these

813
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:13,360
humanoid aliens look so much like us

814
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:15,919
suggest they must be related to us a

815
00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:19,039
direct genetic lineage but according to

816
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:21,200
kersham bomb that's not necessarily the

817
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:23,600
case and here we can look to examples of

818
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:26,640
what he calls again convergent evolution

819
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:28,720
this is where a similar evolutionary

820
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:31,200
trait is developed without different

821
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:34,799
species being related in any direct way

822
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:36,720
and he gives the example of flight and

823
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:39,440
how that's been evolved as a trait four

824
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:41,760
different times on the earth for species

825
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,000
that are unrelated

826
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:46,559
quoting again from his book quote in

827
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:49,120
fact we know that powered flight evolved

828
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:51,760
at least four times on earth birds

829
00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:54,480
evolved flight around 150 million years

830
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:57,519
ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth the

831
00:32:02,549 --> 00:32:00,480
famous fossil archaeoparetic

832
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:02,559
dating from around this time appears to

833
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:05,279
be halfway between a dinosaur and a bird

834
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:07,440
and caused much consternation and

835
00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:10,000
scratching of heads among scientists in

836
00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:12,559
the 19th century including charles

837
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:13,760
darwin

838
00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:15,840
bats on the other hand didn't evolve to

839
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:18,240
fly until a little more than 50 million

840
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:19,360
years ago

841
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:22,000
almost certainly after the extinction of

842
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:23,600
the dinosaurs

843
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:25,760
bird wings and bat wings are so

844
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,000
strikingly different that it is hard to

845
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:31,120
believe they perform similar functions

846
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:34,000
bats have tremendously elongated fingers

847
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:36,000
which stretch to the rear edge of each

848
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:38,960
wing with a thin membrane in between

849
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:41,279
rather like the webbed feet of ducts

850
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:43,200
except that the webbing extends all the

851
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,360
way up the arm as well

852
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,120
birds of course have feathers rather

853
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:49,760
than skin covering their wing but unlike

854
00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:52,240
bats their bones only run along the very

855
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:54,399
leading edge of the wing with feathers

856
00:32:58,230 --> 00:32:56,399
trailing behind them

857
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:58,240
despite the fact that the flight of

858
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:01,200
birds and bats evolved quite separately

859
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:03,519
the uses to which flight has been put

860
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,120
are very similar

861
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:07,679
if you watch swallows and swifts darting

862
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:09,519
through the air to catch flying insects

863
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:12,000
on the wing they look remarkably like

864
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:14,240
the bats you'd see a few hours later at

865
00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:17,279
dusk flitting around after insects just

866
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:18,720
like a bird

867
00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:21,840
the tiny nathusius pipestrel bat

868
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,320
weighing about 10 grams manages to

869
00:33:29,029 --> 00:33:26,480
migrate hundreds or even thousands of

870
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:29,039
kilometers rivaling the long distance

871
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,519
journeys of many birds

872
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:33,840
whatever its origin flight is an

873
00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:36,480
incredibly useful function and it isn't

874
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:39,279
surprising that it crops up again and

875
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:40,320
again

876
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:41,600
unquote

877
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:43,279
so again what christian bomb is saying

878
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:46,080
here is that when a hugely beneficial

879
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:48,960
evolutionary trait exists it's likely to

880
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:51,200
be developed even among species that are

881
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:54,000
not directly related

882
00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:55,840
now christian bomb finishes with this

883
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:59,039
key point convergence should apply

884
00:34:01,990 --> 00:34:00,480
everywhere

885
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:02,000
quoting one more time from his book

886
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:04,240
quote and here is the main point

887
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:06,320
convergent evolution is not just a

888
00:34:12,069 --> 00:34:09,919
phenomenon restricted to life on earth

889
00:34:14,629 --> 00:34:12,079
the same principles that lead birds and

890
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:14,639
bats to evolve similar solutions will

891
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:18,399
also lead alien birds and bats to fly

892
00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:20,639
there is nothing special about earth or

893
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:22,720
about the very distant familial

894
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:25,599
relationship between birds and bats

895
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:28,079
convergence between species on different

896
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:30,960
planets that occupy similar niches is

897
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:33,440
almost certain to occur

898
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,720
unquote

899
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:36,720
so i don't know about you but i found

900
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:38,960
that very fascinating this notion of

901
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:41,359
convergent evolution and perhaps this

902
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:44,240
might explain why the humanoid form is

903
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:46,720
actually quite common across the galaxy

904
00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:49,280
and perhaps even in exogalactic

905
00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:51,200
environments because it's a very

906
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:53,440
beneficial solution that the

907
00:34:59,349 --> 00:34:56,159
evolutionary process has served up in

908
00:35:01,750 --> 00:34:59,359
numerous locations across the cosmos

909
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:01,760
now to be clear i'm not saying this

910
00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:04,240
notion of convergent evolution therefore

911
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:07,440
makes more sense than master's idea that

912
00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:10,400
the grays must be future humans in fact

913
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,400
both might even be going on

914
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:14,160
all i think we should conclude from this

915
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:16,480
is that we shouldn't be too quick to

916
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:19,040
jump to one conclusion and to hold to it

917
00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:21,520
we should keep an open mind and explore

918
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:23,440
other possibilities

919
00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:26,000
and on that note we've come to the close

920
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:27,760
of another edition of the point of

921
00:35:31,589 --> 00:35:29,520
convergence podcast

922
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:31,599
if you'd like to support this podcast

923
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:35,280
you can do so by going to patreon.com

924
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:37,599
exo academian and i'd like to offer a

925
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:39,599
huge thank you to those who have become

926
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:41,200
patrons

927
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:43,280
but until next time friends from deep

928
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:45,040
within the blue ridge mountains of north

929
00:35:49,620 --> 00:35:48,320
carolina this is exo academian signing